Stupid laws

[falling-angel-111]

Man, I'm so tired of everything right now. But of course the topping on the cake right now is this state/country. (don't get me wrong I know it could be much worse in a different country and I'm gratefull and all. And bless all our troop in iraq.) But god some of these law that they have are so old and just stupid. I dunno about anywhere else but right now our state has a curfew issued for everyone under the age of like 18. If it's a school night, you have to be in by 10 or you could arrested and all that shit. Frankly that would make sense to me if it was just like that on the las vegas strip but it's for the whole county. I mean how fucked up is that, I guess you're not actually living in a free country until you're of 18 years old. They say it's to cut down on crime and such, which makes sense but isn't that just like throwing everyones right out the window?

And of course there's the whole statutory rape laws. Which sort of affect me right now. I mean if I had sex with an older man at the age of 15, he could end up in jail for like 5 years. And it doesn't matter how much I say it was consensual, he would still go to prison. I mean this all makes sense it's to protect girls from being exploited by older men, so the have to make the laws tough otherwise it'd be like they weren't even there. But the thing that really gets me is that in some states, not only are there these laws, but they very if you're male or female. So in some states you might only have to be 16 to consent if you're male, but 18 if you're female. How messed up is that? That's like saying every guy is smart enough to know the difference but a girl isn't.

I don't know it just seems like every time police are shoved in my life something always goes horribley wrong because you can't really do shit about anything, they always make my life harder and in the end they never helped a goddamn thing. I mean it's not like I go out and try to find trouble but at the same time I don't want to obey these stupid laws when I should be able to control my own life, atleast to the point where I choose who my sexual partner is and how late I want to be out. -_-;

[Ladywriter]

When you reach legal age you'll get to make all those groovy choices for yourself and then some. It probably won't be as liberating as you're hoping it will be; enjoy the minimal responsibility of being a kid while you still can.

think you got problems ...
w4fQA9mt-Mg

man I just love youtube :p

[Myk JL]

Personally I think what's wrong with the Country is all the "Moral Laws". That crap is only their to raise taxes. A good example was prohibition. All that money wasted on a law that didn't work. Of course nowadays those laws exist for drugs & once again they don't work. I've even heard of bogus laws that dealt with boxers showing.

As for whether or not this is a free country, well only the rich are free. Anyone else who isn't rich & living in a country like the US is "kinda" free.

[Moon Doggie]

But the thing that really gets me is that in some states, not only are there these laws, but they very if you're male or female. So in some states you might only have to be 16 to consent if you're male, but 18 if you're female. How messed up is that? That's like saying every guy is smart enough to know the difference but a girl isn't.


i think what they're trying to say with that "law" is that you hear about girls getting raped more then boys, not saying that boys don't get raped but i personally don't see many boys going after older girls cause of the maturity difference sometimes. but that's just my opinion so don't attack me based off my opinions i mean when have yall ever listened to me? :p

[Kite]

problem with sex laws is that people are maturing younger these days
and if they change the law it shows weakness in the governing, so they wont admit they are wrong, or all hell breaks loose ;p

[Godgrave]

Lady, I learnt so much because of that link!

[Strider Hiryu]

Personally I think what's wrong with the Country is all the "Moral Laws". That crap is only their to raise taxes. A good example was prohibition. All that money wasted on a law that didn't work. Of course nowadays those laws exist for drugs & once again they don't work. I've even heard of bogus laws that dealt with boxers showing.

As for whether or not this is a free country, well only the rich are free. Anyone else who isn't rich & living in a country like the US is "kinda" free.

Considering how life could be a lot worse if we weren't a free country your last statement is complete BS. I don't know about you but I consider myself a free citizen and I'm not even rich.

fallen, seriously laws are there to protect you. Considering your age you shouldn't even be thinking of half the crap you are right now. True, I understand kids these days are maturing faster (not mentally sadly but in other ways) but still thats something that should wait till your older. Truth be told I'm not a big believer is laws and policies but frankly they're not there to make life tough for you, they're there to keep you from making stupid choices and ruining your life.

Love that video you linked Lady. So much wisdom in it.

[Myk JL]

Considering how life could be a lot worse if we weren't a free country your last statement is complete BS. I don't know about you but I consider myself a free citizen and I'm not even rich. Hence kinda free. Think of any opportunity you want.
For example:

Plenty of people have a hard time trying to go a college where they can learn what they want to do. A chunk of people who can't afford to go to a college will join the Army. While some rich D student can easily go to any college they want.

This gets worse if you're talking about health insurance. If your health insurance can't afford a major operation to save your life you're good as dead.

[gokuDX7]

Hence kinda free. Think of any opportunity you want.
For example:

Plenty of people have a hard time trying to go a college where they can learn what they want to do. A chunk of people who can't afford to go to a college will join the Army. While some rich D student can easily go to any college they want.

This gets worse if you're talking about health insurance. If your health insurance can't afford a major operation to save your life you're good as dead.

College isn't run by the government, so it has nothing to do with the country's freedom. Public schools on the other hand are governmentally run, thats why we pay taxes on it and that's why everyone can go (but not necessarily learn anything). If you ask your parents or even grandparents how many people went to college when they where young, you might be surprised to find out that it was way less then in todays culture.

I see no problem with most of the laws we have right now. The sex laws are there for a reason whether you like them or not. If you want to be getting sexed up by some 20 year old when your 15 then move to the UK. In most States in the US, the age of consent is normally around 16 or 17 so I think you guys can wait before going nuts in bed.

[Kite]

16 is the age of sex in the uk, not 15.
and if the person is in a position of authority: teacher, you have to be 18

[Mathias]

1. Sex leads to babies, which leads to government assistance, which leads to higher taxes for everyone. Hence, the law is there to encourage fewer underage parents, stem a population boom, prevent adults from corrupting our children even when they are on the borderline, and save people money. Winner for everyone. Underage anything laws were made to stem a problem at the time of its writing. We may not agree with them and they may not make a whole lot of sense today, but they were written for a reason. A law may look religious or moral on the surface, but if you research back far enough, you'll find that all of these laws, even in the Bible, were written for the betterment of mankind. Do not kill, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do I need to go on? These laws aren't moral or religious, they are common sense for the betterment of mankind.

2. Laws should not be biased in any fashion. The laws should reflect the age of adulthood and it should be consistent throughout the system. If you don't agree with the age limitation for a law, then petition your Congressman with the appropriate number of signatures. We have an age limit of 16 for driving, 18 for smoking, and 21 for drinking. Honestly, if I cared enough, I would petition the age of adulthood and for all of these laws to be 21. That would include joining the military to fight our wars, though I respect anybody who would fight for the honor of our country at any age I would prefer them to wait until they were 21. That's my opinion anyway.

3. Okay, briefly, I know, what's that at this point, I'll discuss the Atheism video. One, I'm tired of people saying Atheism is not a religion. It is, the BELIEF of no God, hence a religion in my book. Yeah, they may not have a service or a religious organization, or maybe they do, I haven't checked, but you get my point. Onto the video. I agree that there shouldn't be laws prohibiting someone from a government position based on race, religion, etc. Atheist's are not special in the aspect of people hating them or encountering violence. Christians and Jews have been persecuted throughout history in EVERY country. All religions encounter this reaction in some manner or another, and I for one don't see it ending anytime soon. I agree that fanaticism is a problem with any religion, whether it's blowing themselves up, throwing people in a gas chamber, making a video, or writing this post. Hmm, I think I'll stop now before my fanaticism causes me to write anymore. :)

[falling-angel-111]

I understand that they're there for a reason, but after you think about all the laws out there, what choices do you have left to make in your life? (considering most people would rather not go to prison for not obeying the law.) Even once you're an adult you're basically still a child, but instead of living under your parents rules and the state, you still have the state left. People are always encouraging teens to make they're own decisions and not be influenced by other people, well how are people really suppose to grow when the biggest choices they make in the months is what clothes they should wear. Just about everything we do is already decided for us, that really makes life worth living doesn't it? If you have a problem in your family and want help, then the second you bring the state into it anything you want is out of the question. Sorry but I'd rather not have some stranger decide whether my mom and dad are fit to be parents, I'd rather decide for myself. But that's not how anything works, because if you're under 18 you're too stupid to make a decision for yourself, and are pretty much controled throughout your life.

Okay I know I'm being a big baby right now, I just hate being controled by everything and everyone. I have no say in anything I do and frankly that won't change much, and I don't think somebody should have to move out of they're own country because the goverment is too controling.

[Myk JL]

College isn't run by the government, so it has nothing to do with the country's freedom. Public schools on the other hand are governmentally run, thats why we pay taxes on it and that's why everyone can go (but not necessarily learn anything). If you ask your parents or even grandparents how many people went to college when they where young, you might be surprised to find out that it was way less then in todays culture. That's one of the main problems. The Government is running Public Schools. In the case that you have a GED you're basically limited to the county that you live in unless you have the money. And more people are in debt to the Colleges they went to. Taxes just increase the amount of money needed to sell anything at a profitable price.

3. Okay, briefly, I know, what's that at this point, I'll discuss the Atheism video. One, I'm tired of people saying Atheism is not a religion. It is, the BELIEF of no God, hence a religion in my book. Yeah, they may not have a service or a religious organization, or maybe they do, I haven't checked, but you get my point. Onto the video. I agree that there shouldn't be laws prohibiting someone from a government position based on race, religion, etc. Atheist's are not special in the aspect of people hating them or encountering violence. Christians and Jews have been persecuted throughout history in EVERY country. All religions encounter this reaction in some manner or another, and I for one don't see it ending anytime soon. I agree that fanaticism is a problem with any religion, whether it's blowing themselves up, throwing people in a gas chamber, making a video, or writing this post. Hmm, I think I'll stop now before my fanaticism causes me to write anymore. :) To say that a non-drug user is a drug user is similar to what you're saying. Atheism follows Science. Science says there is no god. Science is based on fact; not belief. If Science actually found real proof there is god(s), Atheist would then acknowledge the god(s). I agree with everything else you've stated.

[Moon Doggie]

I understand that they're there for a reason, but after you think about all the laws out there, what choices do you have left to make in your life? (considering most people would rather not go to prison for not obeying the law.) Even once you're an adult you're basically still a child, but instead of living under your parents rules and the state, you still have the state left. People are always encouraging teens to make they're own decisions and not be influenced by other people, well how are people really suppose to grow when the biggest choices they make in the months is what clothes they should wear. Just about everything we do is already decided for us, that really makes life worth living doesn't it? If you have a problem in your family and want help, then the second you bring the state into it anything you want is out of the question. Sorry but I'd rather not have some stranger decide whether my mom and dad are fit to be parents, I'd rather decide for myself. But that's not how anything works, because if you're under 18 you're too stupid to make a decision for yourself, and are pretty much controled throughout your life.

Okay I know I'm being a big baby right now, I just hate being controled by everything and everyone. I have no say in anything I do and frankly that won't change much, and I don't think somebody should have to move out of they're own country because the goverment is too controling.

okay, the reason adults tell us kids to make our own decisions because it's like a skill that'll help us when we get out into the "real world" it's getting too late for me to go into greater detail about this, i would if my meds weren't kicking in right now
and this is how i look at the US the "citizens" of the US are like the kiddies and the US is the mommy/adult figure. like a parent the US government makes rules for all the little kiddies to follow, if the kiddies are bad they get scent to time out. But the parent does give the kiddies freedoms and choices and decisions and such to build what they need to survive and thrive as long as it isn't illegal, as US citizens you do actually get choices just depends on what it is and how closely you look at it.....maybe i'm just different cause i was raised differently, but i know some of what i'm saying has to be making since right?

[Myk JL]

okay, the reason adults tell us kids to make our own decisions because it's like a skill that'll help us when we get out into the "real world" it's getting too late for me to go into greater detail about this, i would if my meds weren't kicking in right now
and this is how i look at the US the "citizens" of the US are like the kiddies and the US is the mommy/adult figure. like a parent the US government makes rules for all the little kiddies to follow, if the kiddies are bad they get scent to time out. But the parent does give the kiddies freedoms and choices and decisions and such to build what they need to survive and thrive as long as it isn't illegal, as US citizens you do actually get choices just depends on what it is and how closely you look at it.....maybe i'm just different cause i was raised differently, but i know some of what i'm saying has to be making since right? True good parents will tell their children to think for themselves. How ever there are those who think that they think for themselves when they mainly follow the in crowd or what's advertised to them. Staying out all night is not a good idea based on that the majority go to sleep at that time. People wandering around at this time sadly may become a victim by police or a criminal just because of a stupid law or person.

As for the US Government being the parent this idea is completely backwards. I would be annoyed if my parents demanded me to give them money. How ever the US does this through taxes. A country founded by people who hate taxes.

[Moon Doggie]

1. some people get restless and hyper and can't help but go out. what about all the pregnant women out there who ask their partners to get up in the middle of the night and go out and buy stuff for their cravings? i'm pretty sure they'd be wandering around wondering where can i buy so and so

2. depending what kinda family you came from, for all you know that does go on. I'm the youngest and even i know my sis is giving my mother money and to make this clear my mother doesn't need any more money for a while so it's not an issue of surviving for the next week or 2. and i'm pretty sure it's going to happen to me once i'm in my late 20's early 30's

[gokuDX7]

That's one of the main problems. The Government is running Public Schools. In the case that you have a GED you're basically limited to the county that you live in unless you have the money. And more people are in debt to the Colleges they went to. Taxes just increase the amount of money needed to sell anything at a profitable price.


I'm a bit confused by your last comment. There is no real problem with the government running the public schools (aka. grade school 1-12). We the people, pay for the public schooling. If the kids choose to leave and get a GED then it's their own choice or because they slacked off and/or got kicked out of school. GED does not harm your ability to go to college or move to a different country. I don't know where you herd that but it's a first time for me. I know plenty of people that got their GED then went to college. I also know one girl that left the USA to move to the UK.

College has nothing to do with the government so get it out of your head that it does. It's like a privately owned school. When you pay them money the money goes to the school. If you don't have the money to go, then don't blame the government, it's your own damn fault for not having a job.

[Mathias]

I agree that there are WAY too many laws out there and most are contradicting with loop holes. Many laws should be scrapped in place of simple and clear laws.

The government should be reduced in size. There are too many programs run by the government that are best run as a charity or private companies. A prime example is Medicare. I don't want a politician telling me how to correct my medical problems, that's the doctor's job.

Of course insurance REQUIRED by the government, such as for health and driving is no better. If we paid for our own health care and for driving instead of through insurance companies, government or private, these costs would drop significantly. Of course, I'm not saying cut out the people who actually can't afford medical care, but if we only worry about those in need instead of EVERYONE, we'd be paying much less in taxes and medical expenses.

To say that a non-drug user is a drug user is similar to what you're saying.

Um, no. Point taken in how that can be misinterpreted. I'm referring to articles that I've read in the past that have related Atheism as a religion and as philosophies within a religion. I'm not going to waste my time trying to look for articles that may no longer exist, so I'll reference good ol' wikipedia. Made by the people, for the people, with all its glorious human error included. Though I haven't read them thoroughly, they did make for an interesting skim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_and_religion

Atheism follows Science. Science says there is no god. Science is based on fact; not belief. If Science actually found real proof there is god(s), Atheist would then acknowledge the god(s). I agree with everything else you've stated.

Science does not say there is no God. Science has not proven in fact or fiction that there is or isn't a God. I've read articles in the past where scientists have claimed both cases, but they are all theories and conjectures with nothing proven concretely one way or another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_religion

I'll put out three opinions that I have. I'm sure wiki may have further discussions on these topics, but as these are my opinions, you can find those links yourself.

1. The big bang theory. THEORY. No one truly knows how the universe started. Two big rocks collided to create the universe. Then where did those two rocks come from? You keep narrowing it down until you eventually get to the point where you said, well something existed to cause this to happen. Most religions don't have reason of how God came to be, he just existed. Well, that's my THEORY anyway.

2. Theory of evolution. THEORY. Yeah, I'm going to keep throwing that out, because SCIENCE hasn't proven it yet either. Science has determined the conditions that can support life, our lifeforms anyway, but they can't pinpoint exactly what caused life to start let alone evolve.

Religion doesn't discount science, it embraces science. In fact, most religions don't have a problem with evolution. They say God created mankind in a day, what did God consider a day back then? One spin of our earth? A few billion years through evolution? Who knows? God does, well that's my opinion anyway.

The more mankind learns about ourselves and this wonderful universe we live in, yes, a little more of the magic of it all disappears, but a greater understanding and respect we will also have in its creation. My THEORY, sorry I haven't had a chance to prove it either.

3. Life. Wow. Long drawn out pause. Wow. Scientists have MARVELED over the simple creation of life. We know the parts that create life, dna, genes, molecules, atoms, and so on. But what gives it that spark? What ignites those simple little structures to become something more than just pieces of a part, to become life?

I always liked the comparison that God is the universe. God grows and learns more about Himself by watching and learning from us and everything else happening in the universe. He doesn't interfere with us, because He's learned that Humanity is a stubborn and prideful race that doesn't like listening to authority figures, like parents.

Alright, those are my opinions and I could rattle on for days, but I think you're all done hearing from this fanatic. :) I'll respect anyones decisions to agree to disagree on these issues since they are all THEORIES and OPINIONS.

[Myk JL]

I'm a bit confused by your last comment. There is no real problem with the government running the public schools (aka. grade school 1-12). We the people, pay for the public schooling. If the kids choose to leave and get a GED then it's their own choice or because they slacked off and/or got kicked out of school. GED does not harm your ability to go to college or move to a different country. I don't know where you herd that but it's a first time for me. I know plenty of people that got their GED then went to college. I also know one girl that left the USA to move to the UK.

College has nothing to do with the government so get it out of your head that it does. It's like a privately owned school. When you pay them money the money goes to the school. If you don't have the money to go, then don't blame the government, it's your own damn fault for not having a job. We the people pay for Public Schooling through taxes. If Public Schooling were gone then Private Schooling would compete more to teach.

As for the rest my life has people who work for the state always butting in... This is due to mainly the fact that both my mom & dad enjoyed SSI money & were never that responsible. My father could have been Upper-Middle class like his parents & sisters. My mom from a middle class family, didn't care for full time work & never married. She is happy being poor as she happily mentioned we are the poor relations of the family with out ever having a problem with that. Little did she & I knew that statistically the kids that do worse in Public Schools come from poor families.

I'm not going to go into more detail about my life. But overall I get to bite the hand that feeds as I too get SSI money. Maybe this will change if Ron Paul gets into office. I'll at least feel better about the government becoming small rather than these bull crappers that want to baby me. And I'll have some real motivation. Something the government can never truly offer.


As for Mathias, Religion doesn't have a place in science & Evolution is a proven fact; not a theory or hypothesis. And anyone can write anything on Wiki and most of those who write bull are not even professionals on the subjects they think they know. Or out right lies.

[gokuDX7]

We the people pay for Public Schooling through taxes. If Public Schooling were gone then Private Schooling would compete more to teach.

As for the rest my life has people who work for the state always butting in... This is due to mainly the fact that both my mom & dad enjoyed SSI money & were never that responsible. My father could have been Upper-Middle class like his parents & sisters. My mom from a middle class family, didn't care for full time work & never married. She is happy being poor as she happily mentioned we are the poor relations of the family with out ever having a problem with that. Little did she & I knew that statistically the kids that do worse in Public Schools come from poor families.

I'm not going to go into more detail about my life. But overall I get to bite the hand that feeds as I too get SSI money. Maybe this will change if Ron Paul gets into office. I'll at least feel better about the government becoming small rather than these bull crappers that want to baby me. And I'll have some real motivation. Something the government can never truly offer.


As for Mathias, Religion doesn't have a place in science & Evolution is a proven fact; not a theory or hypothesis. And anyone can write anything on Wiki and most of those who write bull are not even professionals on the subjects they think they know. Or out right lies.

your comments still make no sense at all. Your associating money with freedom when it actually has nothing to do with how free you are in the US.

Public school is public school, you pay for it through taxes and you choose to learn what they teach you. Public high school, is of course, different from a private high school since the private school gets less people going and teachers are getting payed way more to teach. It has nothing to do with the government or your freedom. College is, for the most part, considered private also. if you can't afforded it then tough luck it's not the governments doing.

[Myk JL]

your comments still make no sense at all. Your associating money with freedom when it actually has nothing to do with how free you are in the US.

Public school is public school, you pay for it through taxes and you choose to learn what they teach you. Public high school, is of course, different from a private high school since the private school gets less people going and teachers are getting payed way more to teach. It has nothing to do with the government or your freedom. College is, for the most part, considered private also. if you can't afforded it then tough luck it's not the governments doing. Well to simplify 3rd world countries are poor countries so if the people had the ability to not be poor on their own they would. Still if you still don't understand how money = freedom I doubt you'll ever get it at all. The more money you have the better your health care can be; so on & so forth.

Everyone pays for Public Schooling whether they want to or not. Since I'm guessing you had never had to deal with SSI doubt you would realize that the government hands tax payer money to people who don't even earn it.

I was offered money by governmental program so if I wanted I could go to college. However they never told me it would only be limited to my county so I was never able to go to the college I wanted.

Recently in the past months I've gotten offers once again for education & quite possibly the ability to move out of my apartment paid by tax payer money into a house that would be paid by tax payer money.

Basically if you ever heard John Edwards talk about the 2 Americas what it is, is his want to give more poor people tax payer money. This is a move backwards as it would create more poor people as taxes would then increase.

The only thing the US government is supposed to be in charge of however is the nation's defense. Everything else is suppose to be taken care of by the free market. Everything else the US government does just increases taxes. Taxes have pushed a lot of American jobs over seas. And bad regulations have hurt small businesses.

[Ladywriter]

problem with sex laws is that people are maturing younger these days

That would be due to the hormones, enzymes, toxins etc that are in the food we eat. Cows don't just eat hay and corn anymore; there is shit in their food to make them produce more milk, high protein diets for the animals we eat, preservatives in food and drink, pesticides and new strains of vegetables ie corn vs maize. Remember the old ad campaign Milk it does a body good or your grammy saying Drink your milk/eat your broccoli if you wanna grow up big and strong....somebody took that shit to the extreme.

1. Sex leads to babies, which leads to government assistance, which leads to higher taxes for everyone.
*ding ding ding* Give that man a cookie! :D The govt has been 'reforming' the welfare system and sex ed since the baby boom (talk about a hard lesson learned. Now they got SS to deal with. Population explosions just keep on costing.) Safe sex is taught to 12 year olds in public school. You can walk into any one of those planned parenthood/family planning places and get FREE condoms.


2. Laws should not be biased in any fashion.
*rewatches the vid above* :look:

after you think about all the laws out there, what choices do you have left to make in your life?
Coke or Pepsi. Heels or flats. Universe or multiverse. Education or ignorance. Being an individual or following the crowd. Sounds stupid but think about it. You aren't living in a totally masagonistic theocracy. You have (even as a minor) human rights and civil liberties.

True good parents will tell their children to think for themselves.
Though I can mostly agree with this I just had to :lol: Yes we want you to think for yourselves It would be really great if ya'all would clean up after yourselves too :meh:

I agree that there are WAY too many laws out there and most are contradicting with loop holes. Many laws should be scrapped in place of simple and clear laws.

9CitfTtMIx8
sorry couldn't resist X'D

[Moon Doggie]

O_O I'm surprised i comprehend so much of this stuff given my age

Myk JL, you seem to have some grudge against private schools and also being poor has nothing to do with doing well in school. That sounds like a bunch of BS to me. I know that if you make a 3.0 gpa or above you can get a life scholarship, maybe not in the college you want but maybe at like a technical college, better than no college at all correct?
I've grasp the basic stuff about taxes and stuff and that they go to funds and what not. But you seem really irritated at where the money is going. Just thought i'd point this out.....so don't get all mad at me for being captain obvious

[Myk JL]

O_O I'm surprised i comprehend so much of this stuff given my age

Myk JL, you seem to have some grudge against private schools and also being poor has nothing to do with doing well in school. That sounds like a bunch of BS to me. I know that if you make a 3.0 gpa or above you can get a life scholarship, maybe not in the college you want but maybe at like a technical college, better than no college at all correct?
I've grasp the basic stuff about taxes and stuff and that they go to funds and what not. But you seem really irritated at where the money is going. Just thought i'd point this out.....so don't get all mad at me for being captain obvious You got that backwards. If anything I have a grudge with Public Schools & all of these bogus government programs, like SSI.

I've heard statistics that state that people from poor families tend to fail more in High School. College is good, but it's better if you can get education for the job you're looking for. The government has turned my parents into some of the laziest people I know. Moreover I've seen people as bad or have had it worse as a chunk of them have no responsibility & have no real say in simple matters like what food they have.

[gokuDX7]

Well to simplify 3rd world countries are poor countries so if the people had the ability to not be poor on their own they would. Still if you still don't understand how money = freedom I doubt you'll ever get it at all. The more money you have the better your health care can be; so on & so forth.

Everyone pays for Public Schooling whether they want to or not. Since I'm guessing you had never had to deal with SSI doubt you would realize that the government hands tax payer money to people who don't even earn it.

I was offered money by governmental program so if I wanted I could go to college. However they never told me it would only be limited to my county so I was never able to go to the college I wanted.

Recently in the past months I've gotten offers once again for education & quite possibly the ability to move out of my apartment paid by tax payer money into a house that would be paid by tax payer money.

Basically if you ever heard John Edwards talk about the 2 Americas what it is, is his want to give more poor people tax payer money. This is a move backwards as it would create more poor people as taxes would then increase.

The only thing the US government is supposed to be in charge of however is the nation's defense. Everything else is suppose to be taken care of by the free market. Everything else the US government does just increases taxes. Taxes have pushed a lot of American jobs over seas. And bad regulations have hurt small businesses.

3rd world countries have nothing to do with School or your freedom so stop dragging other matters into what you originally said several posts ago. Money has nothing to do with freedom! Of course money does make life easier and much more fun but it still has nothing to do with your freedom as a citizen. I'm sure if you ever get the chance to go to a 3rd world country thats run by communists you will understand what freedom really is. SSI and Welfare are meant for food, clothing, shelter. Not for you to go to college or private school. The people that normally have it (not sure what your situation is) are people that are disabled/have an illness, old, or have little to no income and cant work. If your not any of the above and your old enough to work then there's nothing stopping you from getting a job to make money to go to a college of your choice or buy the things you want. No government is telling you no you cant do that son. Sure you would have to take out loans and shit to pay off college in the end but there's still nothing stopping you from choosing where you want to go.

..and I repeat, college is not governmentally run. You got money from the government either because of a tuition or because of the SSI program your in. It's got nothing to do with freedom or because the government is trying to smite you down and force you into a college that sucks.

PS. don't pick on public schools. I learned way more in public school then I did in private. It all depends on where you live and how good the teachers are. It's the same for private as well. If the teachers don't want to be there then it shows and kids wont learn anything.

[Mathias]

Sledgstone and I grew up in poor family in a bad part of town. Not nearly so bad as the ghettos, but we got by by keeping our noses clean. We went to public schools and avoided the gangs. I would have preferred a private school, but you get by with what you can. If schools were all made private, then the taxes would be lowered appropriately, and most poor people could afford it. Government can help support those few exception, but that's it. Loans are there for a reason, and they are meant to be paid back.

I pulled myself through high school with good grades, not because I'm smart, but because I had determination to do my best. I received scholarships and grants that paid for most of my schooling. I could have taken a full ROTC scholarship, but I chose not to. Nothing against the military, it just wasn't right for me.

I graduated with a BA in Computer Science and in Math in 3.5 years. Once again, it's not because I'm smart, it's because I have determination to see myself live the American dream, and in my own small way I have. I went on to get a good job and brought myself up to middle America. I could push myself farther and work hard late hours to go even farther, but I've reached a balance between work, family, and money that I'm happy with.

I didn't tell this story to brag, put anyone down, or anything negative. I present it here as an uplifting, positive, true story about how there are no bounds to what a person can do. The only chains that hold us down are those that we create for ourselves.

[PsymonSays]

Man, I'm so tired of everything right now. But of course the topping on the cake right now is this state/country. (don't get me wrong I know it could be much worse in a different country and I'm gratefull and all. And bless all our troop in iraq.) But god some of these law that they have are so old and just stupid. I dunno about anywhere else but right now our state has a curfew issued for everyone under the age of like 18. If it's a school night, you have to be in by 10 or you could arrested and all that shit. Frankly that would make sense to me if it was just like that on the las vegas strip but it's for the whole county. I mean how fucked up is that, I guess you're not actually living in a free country until you're of 18 years old. They say it's to cut down on crime and such, which makes sense but isn't that just like throwing everyones right out the window?

And of course there's the whole statutory rape laws. Which sort of affect me right now. I mean if I had sex with an older man at the age of 15, he could end up in jail for like 5 years. And it doesn't matter how much I say it was consensual, he would still go to prison. I mean this all makes sense it's to protect girls from being exploited by older men, so the have to make the laws tough otherwise it'd be like they weren't even there. But the thing that really gets me is that in some states, not only are there these laws, but they very if you're male or female. So in some states you might only have to be 16 to consent if you're male, but 18 if you're female. How messed up is that? That's like saying every guy is smart enough to know the difference but a girl isn't.

I don't know it just seems like every time police are shoved in my life something always goes horribley wrong because you can't really do shit about anything, they always make my life harder and in the end they never helped a goddamn thing. I mean it's not like I go out and try to find trouble but at the same time I don't want to obey these stupid laws when I should be able to control my own life, atleast to the point where I choose who my sexual partner is and how late I want to be out. -_-;

I live in cali and I've always had a curfew it like 10 or 11 but the cops here cut us some slack when its a dance night like junior/senior prom and stuff.
but that cali sorry for every one else who lives in cali and likes cali but california is one messed up state.
they wanted to make it so you couldn't get you lisence till your 18 and they cut our schools budget by half to.
and there was some woman that wanted to make illegal for guys to sag there pants (wich in my opinion is stupid) I'm mean common its just a trend!
jeez!!!
hahaha

[Godgrave]

California is one of the most liberal states in the US, correct?

[PsymonSays]

California is one of the most liberal states in the US, correct?


prolly
but stills its the most messed up

[Mathias]

The following is a quote from Albert Einstein. Read the full article at the following link.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm


For example, a conflict arises when a religious community insists on the absolute truthfulness of all statements recorded in the Bible. This means an intervention on the part of religion into the sphere of science; this is where the struggle of the Church against the doctrines of Galileo and Darwin belongs. On the other hand, representatives of science have often made an attempt to arrive at fundamental judgments with respect to values and ends on the basis of scientific method, and in this way have set themselves in opposition to religion. These conflicts have all sprung from fatal errors.
Now, even though the realms of religion and science in themselves are clearly marked off from each other, nevertheless there exist between the two strong reciprocal relationships and dependencies. Though religion may be that which determines the goal, it has, nevertheless, learned from science, in the broadest sense, what means will contribute to the attainment of the goals it has set up. But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion. To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.


Here's a discussion from Stanford about creationism and evolution. It references it as theory and the controversy of the term. Read the articles for more information, but I only skimmed them.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/creationism/

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evolution/

First, the Creationists argue that at best evolution is only a theory and not a fact, and that theories should never be taken as gospel (if one might be permitted a metaphor). They claim that the very language of evolutionists themselves show that their ideas are on shaky grounds. To which charge evolutionists respond that this is to confuse two senses of the word ‘theory.’ Sometimes we use it to mean a body of scientific laws, as in ‘Einstein's theory of relativity.’ Sometimes we use it to mean an ‘iffy hypothesis,’ as in ‘I have a theory about Kennedy's assassination.’ These are two very different senses. There is nothing iffy about Einstein's theory. It is true. It is a fact. Evolutionists argue that the same is the case with evolution. When talking about the theory of evolution, one is talking about a body of laws. In particular, if one is following the ideas of Charles Darwin, one is arguing that population pressures lead to a struggle for existence, this then entails a natural selection of favored forms, and evolution eventuates. This is a body of general statements about life, that is this is a body of laws, and hence is a theory in the first sense just given. There is no implication here that the theory is iffy, that is in the second sense just given.

[Myk JL]

Money has nothing to do with freedom! Of course money does make life easier and much more fun but it still has nothing to do with your freedom as a citizen. SSI and Welfare are meant for food, clothing, shelter. Not for you to go to college or private school. The people that normally have it (not sure what your situation is) are people that are disabled/have an illness, old, or have little to no income and cant work. If your not any of the above and your old enough to work then there's nothing stopping you from getting a job to make money to go to a college of your choice or buy the things you want. No government is telling you no you cant do that son. Sure you would have to take out loans and shit to pay off college in the end but there's still nothing stopping you from choosing where you want to go..You still don't you comprehend how my does equals freedom. Even if you state it you still can't comprehend it. SSI & Welfare have not solved the problem. I've seen it create the laziest people I know. Over & over again I have been offered by the government for a college in the county. My problem with that is that it does not help at all when it comes to career opportunities outside my county & I find it annoying as I think they are full of it. It further pisses me off on how even if I were to ask about how would I be able to go the college I want they'd insist on a college in the county.

..and I repeat, college is not governmentally run. You got money from the government either because of a tuition or because of the SSI program your in. It's got nothing to do with freedom or because the government is trying to smite you down and force you into a college that sucks. It isn't, but my life basically is. And I've seen it run others lives even more than mine. They can't force me into a college, but they keep talking about one every time I went anywhere near the subject.

PS. don't pick on public schools. I learned way more in public school then I did in private. It all depends on where you live and how good the teachers are. It's the same for private as well. If the teachers don't want to be there then it shows and kids wont learn anything. So you have no problem with bad public schools burning through tax payer money? Even if the Private School was bad it would eventually go out of business if it didn't correct the problems it has.

[gokuDX7]

You still don't you comprehend how my does equals freedom. Even if you state it you still can't comprehend it. SSI & Welfare have not solved the problem. I've seen it create the laziest people I know. Over & over again I have been offered by the government for a college in the county. My problem with that is that it does not help at all when it comes to career opportunities outside my county & I find it annoying as I think they are full of it. It further pisses me off on how even if I were to ask about how would I be able to go the college I want they'd insist on a college in the county.

It isn't, but my life basically is. And I've seen it run others lives even more than mine. They can't force me into a college, but they keep talking about one every time I went anywhere near the subject.

So you have no problem with bad public schools burning through tax payer money? Even if the Private School was bad it would eventually go out of business if it didn't correct the problems it has.

So you admit that college has nothing to do with the government or freedom. Thats all I wanted from the start lol.

Also, I don't see how going to any college would effect your career choices in a different country. A degree is a degree no matter what college you go to in the US. You also have a choice, even if the government is telling you right to your face that they wont pay you the money if you choose to go somewhere else, you still have the choice to say "O well then I'll work and pay to go to the college I want". They cant stop you lol. Thats what we call freedom in the USA.

[Mathias]

I worked and paid off the tuition my scholarships and grants didn't pay for, and living from home with a modest rent definitely helped. Since I had no debts coming out of college, a rarity from what I understand and not because I'm rich, I bought a house six months after starting my job. Would have been three months, but the family asked me to wait until their house was finished. Once again, I came from a poor background and am living the American Dream! I can't emphasize this enough, the American Dream can be reached with hard work, determination, and a healthy respect for people and the world around you.

The other programmers I worked with had student loans to pay after their graduation.

One programmer paid it off quicker by getting a second job at a video game store. He later quit and joined another company for more pay, because we moved not because he wanted to. He lived in an apartment or a condo, but he was happy there and didn't want to move. He had a lot of friends at our job, and we were sad to see him go.

The other programmer managed to join a start up company in the early stages and has now quit to work full-time for that company for half his pay. That could make or break him, depending on how the company does. You have to work and take risks for the American Dream.

Government programs that just drop money into the lives of people do not give the people any incentive to get a job. These programs have purposes, but they are abused and need to be reexamined by a group of politicians who actually care about the people enough to teach people how to earn money so they can support themselves for a lifetime, instead of giving them all of your money. Sorry, the fish parable was so appropriate there.

[Moon Doggie]

*snorts* my sis accidentally made the mistake of asking my mother for the money to go to college now my mother is asking for all of it back. I think if my friends knew the cost of me having to ask my mother to pay for me to go to college i think they'd agree that getting money from the government would be better.
I'm sure this is confusing to some of you so i'll do my sister's back ground. She has 2 kids not much younger than me to raise all by herself, the daddy is in jail so idk how child support works with him being locked up. but my mom still wants my sis to pay 200 a month until she pays off what she owes, and my sis doesn't even have a car any more, around Christmas she moved in with my mom. so if you think the government is bad you haven't met my mom

[Kelene]

Well... If your sister and her kids live with your mom then maybe some of the money is for "rent" and food, electric, water, and all that other stuff. Does your sister work and able to pay the bills and any money your mom wants?

When I got my car my dad paid for it up front. We worked out a payment plan so that I could pay him back (with interest). Some months I didn't have the extra money so my dad just said to pay him when I could. I repaid all the money and interest within two years. Maybe your mom will let your sister slide a month or two.

But at least she went to college. Just think, if she had student loans then she would have to pay them back in a certain amount of time after graduation. By borrowing money from your mother she can gradually pay back the money.

[gokuDX7]

The one thing you should do as soon as you have a kid is to start a college fund for them and start packing away money in it every year (even if it isn't much, bank interest adds up after 19 years). My parents did this for me with money from grandparents and birthdays and such, by the time I started college I had enough to pay for 5 years worth. Although I wanted to go to a tech so now I have enough money to make a down payment on a house if I choose to in the future.

That and retirement. My parents always forced me to put away at least 1k a year of my own money into a retirement fund as soon as I turned 13. I still do it but not with as much money.

[Moon Doggie]

Well... If your sister and her kids live with your mom then maybe some of the money is for "rent" and food, electric, water, and all that other stuff. Does your sister work and able to pay the bills and any money your mom wants?

When I got my car my dad paid for it up front. We worked out a payment plan so that I could pay him back (with interest). Some months I didn't have the extra money so my dad just said to pay him when I could. I repaid all the money and interest within two years. Maybe your mom will let your sister slide a month or two.

But at least she went to college. Just think, if she had student loans then she would have to pay them back in a certain amount of time after graduation. By borrowing money from your mother she can gradually pay back the money.


yes my sister has a job, she works at a heart center. i'm pretty sure it's not food rent money. if my sis wanted something different for her and her kids she'd go with my mom and buy the stuff she wanted with her own money. But since my mom buys a variety of things "for the house" then there's no issues with the food.
electricity both me and my mom spend most of our time on the computer, leaving my sister and her kids the tv's so that really doesn't mess with the bills, cause i usually have the tv on though i'm not watching it, i should know i always look over my mom's shoulder when she is opening mail.
the water bill is slightly affected more cause more laudry.
besides i think my mom likes my sis staying with us, cause the extra rooms are being used
and my mom does let my sis slide cause my mom wants all the 200 dollars at one time not 100 i'll give you the other 100 next week.
but anyways enough about me and my family i was trying to make a point that sometimes the government isn't that bad when it comes too loans compared to some people